Feddit.onlineClarifying what's happening at Mozilla: an Interview with Ryan Sipes from Thunderbird
Meldriktilvids.com/videos/watch/d64fac52-2b65-45ff-aaa…
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Comments in The Linux [email protected]
cabbageIt's striking that the Thunderbird team seems to be the ones out there putting out fires created by the fox.
I can totally believe the that Mozilla hired some lawyers to make the terms of service complacent with EU law, and that these lawyers lacked understanding of open source projects and created some monstrosity that should never have made its way to the eyes of the public. Fine.
But FireFox is a much bigger project than Thunderbird. Why did nobody with the an understanding of open source read through the ToS before making it public? And if they just didn't have the time to read it, why are they sending their colleagues from Thunderbird out there to put out fires for them?
Has FireFox been taken over by outside hires to the point where those left on the team does not understand the culture around open source any more?
Ryan says around 21:20 that "the problem is who we are". I'm afraid that's more accurate than maybe he had in mind.
Neblib@thelinuxexperiment finally got a chance to watch this, great interview! Thanks @ryanleesipes for doing this outreach in this moment, and to both of you for continuing to share on this platform.
Radote Chill Pépère 🌶️
Peter@thelinuxexperiment Thank you for this interview! How you said: If we want to support a non-google and non-apple Engine, we have no alternative to support Mozilla. (sorry, i know my english is really bad 😃)
johnteachestechDeleted by author
And who is going to pay the developers?
@falseprophet @thelinuxexperiment
not sure if this is a joke or not
but there are software developers whom have jobs not paid by evil telemetry
They are working at companies that sell products, Firefox is free software where do you expect the money will come from?
@falseprophet @thelinuxexperiment
Where does the money come from on other FOSS projects tgat don't steal your data?
This is not rocket science, and money does not justify unethical practices.
From large companies that supports them, or if it as a small projects donations. Neither applies here no company supports firefox they prefer chrome and firefox is too big to survive on donations.
Also they do not still your data. It has been explained many times over the years that they do not do that.
Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️@thelinuxexperiment Ryan talks a lot about Mozilla trying to thread the line between community and managing such a large product, but he's missing a crucial point which is that the leadership *feels* disconnected from the community.
i genuinely believe that had there been a single seat on the board reserved for the community, or if there was some way to elect board members, trust would immediately improve even before any changes were implemented.
Mozilla needs to understand that trust is key.
Grey the earthling@thelinuxexperiment Thankyou for this interview!
I didn't hear any acknowledgement of any problem with the terms of service.
Mozilla's position seems to be: “We can't legally say that we don't sell your data, because we do some things that might legally qualify as selling your data. But we won't tell you what those activities are! (And we'll still insist that we don't *really* sell your data, even though we've acknowledged that yes we actually do.)”
Selling data is bad enough. Trying to pretend you don't is an even bigger breach of whatever trust anyone had left in Mozilla.
Until they say either “we don't sell your data” or “here is how we sell your data”, they are not being honest and you shouldn't trust them.
@thelinuxexperiment a crash course in psychology and one on public relations. It's one thing to be able to write a text well but a communicator has to be able to understand how people outside the organisation, without any prior knowledge, will read the signals you are sending.
Comments in [email protected]
1h?! Do you have a TL;DW?
BlisterexeParaphrased from my other comment:
Firefox is the only fully open source direct-to-consumer product that operates at such a large scale, and there is a ton of regulatory pressure on them to be as forthright as possible in stuff like the tos and privacy policy, and since they're the only one they can't learn from others mistakes.
Combine that with legalese sounding scary and Mozilla not being great at communication (they're trying though, remember we heard about this from a blog post) and you get the current situation.
QuazatronWith so many dumb ways Google is pushing AI down our throats, creating a TL;DW feature would be actually quite useful.
No doubt there's fuckery afoot
IninewCrowSame thoughts here ... if you can't get a clear simple message across in a short amount of time or space and you need long winded answers and cryptic responses in vague language ... then there is definitely something fucky happening.
The "something fucky" is that Firefox is the only fully open source direct-to-consumer product that operates at such a large scale, and there is a ton of regulatory pressure on them to be as forthright as possible, and since they're the only one they can't learn from others mistakes.
Combine that with legalese sounding scary and Mozilla not being great at communication (they're trying though, remember we heard about this from a blog post) and you get the current situation
quoll
They don't work hard enough to get rid of thar crappy CEO who keeps selling our data is what happens there.
Yeah it didn't occur to me that anything might be unclear. The damage was done many years ago though.
I can't watch an hour video. Anyone want to condense this for me?
Reposted from my comment on the other post:
Firefox is the only fully open source direct-to-consumer product that operates at such a large scale, and there is a ton of regulatory pressure on them to be as forthright as possible in stuff like the tos and privacy policy, and since they're the only one they can't learn from others mistakes.
Combine that with legalese sounding scary and Mozilla not being great at communication (they're trying though, remember we heard about this from a blog post) and you get the current situation.
Boo. Just commit to not selling your users data, greedy fucks.