Feddit.onlineVW Design Boss Confirms Buttons Coming Back: 'It's A Car, Not A Phone'
insideevs.com/news/752840/vw-brings-back-button…
Manufacturers are slowly starting to listen to what car journalists and owners have been complaining about for almost a decade: Cramming all the car’s functions into a touchscreen is an inferior solution to having dedicated physical controls for key tasks.
Among the manufacturers known to be switching back to buttons is Volkswagen, whose latest vehicles have gone touch-control-crazy with functions either buried inside a touchscreen menu or relocated to an annoying haptic feedback panel.
We’ve known for a while that Volkswagen was considering putting back some buttons in its cars, but the manufacturer never officially acknowledged this. Now VW’s design boss, Andreas Mindt, has admitted to Autocar that this approach was a mistake and that the automaker is backtracking on this trend.
“From the ID.2all onwards, we will have physical buttons for the five most important functions—the volume, the heating on each side of the car, the fans and the hazard light—below the screen,” Mindt told Autocar. He added, “They will be in every car that we make from now on. We will never, ever make this mistake anymore. On the steering wheel, we will have physical buttons. No guessing anymore. There's feedback, it's real, and people love this. Honestly, it's a car. It's not a phone.”
Thank fucking god.
And fix the spring steering thingy maybe. Feels like you're driving a boat, which is dangerous, because you underestimate speed.
This way the new VW tanks will be easier to handle.
I'm pretty sure VW made a declaration similar to that a few years ago.
Great. Do away with the unnecessary telemetry next.
I used to work with big companies collecting IoT data. 90% were collecting telemetry without knowing why. Or having business goals they could easily achieve in other ways, without hoovering everything and violating our privacy.
The rest were doing it so they could sell it to data brokers and make money.
None of them were trying to push privacy as a competitive advantage.
This is why I don't have a new car. I'm hoping I get one where I have access to my own data (in eg. Home Assistant), and the manufacturer doesn't.
3rd party stereos in classic cars seems to be the only way to get that.
Yep, that's basically what I have.
I'm ready to buy a factory new car, when I find one where the data is mine.
It’s too bad LocalMotors never really worked out. It could have been an open source car company, but instead it was a weird designed by committee expensive car.
Factory cars these days are so locked down that in order to replace some sensors or controllers you have to log into a paid (like sometime $30+ an day) online portal to enable the new part. It’s super fucked.
nymea.io was one of the few who were full private, but I think they got bought out or something
lol
The thing the vast majority doesn't care about and that doesn't prevent them from buying cars and that you'll have to live with unless you just keep driving your old car forever?
I'll eventually have to buy a new car, yes. But I'll also be looking into replacing the car's cellular antenna with a dummy load if possible. A good car shouldn't depend on cellular networks to be able to function.
Unfortunately, a lot of them are bad https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
I'm looking for reading on cars that don't break when you disable the cellular antenna, but haven't found much so far.
Even if you disable the antenna, who is to say it doesn't cache telemetry locally that isn't just sucked up by the dealer the next time you bring your car in?
But then how will you know where the nearest Arby's is on your commute
My favorite place to buy and use drugs!
It's so weird how not a single person here can just say "cool, this is good".
Sometimes things can just be good.
Trust is earned, and automakers have done nothing but the opposite for an entire lifetime. There’s a reason everyone was so desperate for Tesla to be the little guy rebel. It didn’t work out though :(
Yes, but a corporation complying with the law is sadly what passes for good news in the US these days.
Consumers don't like subscriptions to operate heated seats that are already integrated into the car, for example.
Yes, but this is not one of those times.
Imagine someone poops on your doorstep, and then removes half of it.
You can say it's good that they removed some of it, but that's probably not the point you would want to make.
Nothing to do with the euroNCAP guidance that came out earlier in the year, of course.
Nah I'm sure that carmakers being forced to do this only factored in a little bit.
Only because buttons are cheaper than fines of course.
I’ve been assured that tHe MaRkEt will solve everything, though!
Just keep hoping for that invisible handjob.
Great, now unfuck the car I already have
I have an 2021 Toyota and replaced the display with a Android head unit. Then added Bluetooth + USB buttons on my dash.
Some features don't work anymore like, but I can live with that.
Would be hilarious if they recalled them and superglued buttons over the touchscreen interface.
Isn't that basically how the knob on the touchscreen of the Ford Mach-E works? I think it's just glued on and simulates a touch like a stylus.
I had no idea, yet I was correct: this IS hilarious!
Why did you buy it then
Because there are multiple criteria that people look for in a car? Or because fuck you.
Glad they return to the old proven ways. It’s so much safer to have proper buttons and dials.
This will be another nice side effect of Tesla shitting the bed. They were the ones that started this trend and now that they are out of fashion, it will become unfashionable again.
Whoever thought touch button for blinking signs is a good idea 😆
So many Teslas blinking wrong on the streets now…
Seriously? The blinkers are on the touchscreen!?! 🤦♂️
Touch buttons on the steering "wheel"
Capacitive button on the wheel
Dumb
Yeah, imagine trying to hit that while you're turning the wheel
Tesla already backtracked on some touch-screen controls.
honestly, I'm all for buttons on phones too, I miss my sideout keyboard.
I am too young and missed this era of phones, but personally I don't like the idea of slide out keyboards. They seem like they would be very prone to dirt clogging it up. Would it even be possible to get an IP68 rating with a slide out keyboard?
The one phone feature I miss most is the alert slider from the OnePlus 5T I had. The 3 position switch is so intuitive when it comes to putting the phone on vibrate or mute.
It sucks that no other phones have it, as I vowed never to buy a OnePlus phone again due to them never selling phones officially in my country. That, the increase in price, the trend towards more mainstream conformity, and the software deficiencies really soured my opinions of OnePlus.
My friend, you are in luck. I happen to have not one but two Motorola droids with slide out keyboards. The keyboard is a full plastic sheet that has raised buttons for the keys, so no dirt can get under the keys, but as you can see here although dirt can accumulate on the keyboard itself, this doesn't effect the sliding. https://streamable.com/9g509h
the keyboards back in the day were generally dustproof, yes, with only the gap between the keyboard and the rest of the phone being an issue. the keys weren't like the keys on a laptop, generally, they were more like buttons under a solid plastic sheet, that's how they kept it from gettng dirty!
Yeah it was the sliding mechanism I was thinking of as a potential issue, not the actual keys themselves. Phones with keyboards that don't slide seem ok, but I personally wouldn't want one.
the sliding stuff generally wasn't a problem unless you buried your phone in sand or something, that would probably make the slide a bit gritty, but it was fine otherwise
Now it probably makes me sound old, but I think a lot of you youths would be changing your tune after trying one. I was so much faster at typing and navigating on one of thase than a touch screen, even with gestures.
More like a formed plastic sheet with contact pads glued on the underside. The whole keyboard was just a PCB, plastic casing, and a button sheet.
thanks, i wasn't aware of the specifics :3
Maybe, but the competition at the time wouldn't have IP68 anyway.
Especially for gaming. My old Nokia N81 kicked this rectangular piece of glass's ass when it comes to gaming because I could actually comfortably play games that weren't turn based and didn't need to slap an overlay onto the screen.
https://youtu.be/Z3f4Q7DUT-U
I’m thinking about getting one of those
You can get the same feeling with a Xbox controller and a phone mount for the controller. its not quite as cool looking but for $10 is the same experience. I have this one that I got like 2 years ago, it works great. Good money saver if you already have a controller that supports bluetooth. They have them for PS controllers too.
Damn, that definitely looks very cool. Probably expensive too lol. But exactly what these touchscreen phones need.
Well it is a nice young youtuber starting a startup using kickstarter. I think an investment is worth it 😇
Edit: 😯 way more expensive than I thought
My favorite phone was my LG enV2 with the physical qwerty keyboard. Thing would keep its charge for weeks, and I could just chuck it across a room with no consequences. Not a smartphone obviously, but it was great for its time.
Even on "near 100% screen" devices, there's still real estate on the side, for some function buttons, like
bixby, back, home, etc. My Windows Phone Nokia had a dedicated camera button that could have alternative functions in some applications.If you double click your power button it should bring up your camera
Whoever thought touchscreens were a good idea for a console needs to be shot
They are grat for things that benwfit from havibg flexible touch anywhere interaction like maps.
They suck for anything you want to touch without looking away from the road, like temp controls.
Honda still including buttons and knobs for climate controls was a huge factor for my last purchase. A few brands were instantly rejected because they had climate controls in the touch screen and I had already hated that experience from rentals and my in law's cars.
Nah you should make the steering wheel also a touchscreen, that would be smart. 🙃
Step 1: put in touchscreens
Step 2: touchscreens good because = smart
Step 3: ...
Step 4: Profit?
Swipe left to go left. Swipe right to go right. Pinch to accelerate. Say in a clear voice "Please begin braking" to decelerate.
Engine. Start.
Display ads in the meantime.
Say Yaah to accelerate, and Whoa to slow down.
Step 1: Make insanely stupid design decision to save $2
Step 2: Sell reversal as an upgrade
Touch screens in cars has always been a fuckin' stupid idea, and I say that with the sincerest hope that nobody died because they had to look at the touchscreen to know where to tap to change the radio station because commercials came on
Someone has died due to a touchscreen. A woman had a Tesla which you put in park forwards or reverse with a touchscreen. She’d always had trouble with it and got it wrong and reversed into a pond. That meant the power went out so she couldn’t open that door. To get to the emergency escape handle you have to remove the speakers in the doors. So she drowned.
The kicker? Her husband was a millionaire and he immediately put out a statement absolving Tesla and musk from any wrongdoing.
Billionaires, both of them, I think.
The world is healing
It's incredible it took them this long, considering how obvious it is. But good - it's nice to see at least one thing getting less and not more shitty for once, however tiny.
I dare say that that part of the reason behind this decision is that they are also required to meet safety standards.
No it's the only reason they are coming back, if they cared they wouldn't have got ridden of the buttons in the first place
They have been publicly moving in this direction for a few years. They cynical play is they pushed the new safety standards because they are ready and want to cause their competition problems as they are forced to rush buttons back (who knows, but it wouldn't surprise me)
Regulations work!
Now wait a second! Hold on! Let's get one thing straight here......
.......buttons should also return to phones.
I'd settle for reasonable ports
i would be willing to pay so much money to have a physical horizontal keyboard in my phone
Not sure your age, but that used to be a thing. A little slide out keyboard as a way to transition the gap between fully onscreen controls, and the old flip phones. This would have been 2003-2009 roughly.
I've never understood the cell phone market thinking. If you have 1 flip phone, it's suddenly ALL flip phones for the next 2 years. Then its a candybar style for the next 3 years. Then one phone gets wider, they all get wider. Then one gets credit card slim, they all get credit card slim. Now for the past decade it's all been black rectangles with no personality besides 1 logo on the back. Just a touchscreen, and a fuck you.
The market is filled with different customers. One wants a keyboard. One doesn't. Why can't they both find what they want in different products on the market?
i remember my mom having some nokia phone like 10 - 15 years ago, had oled display and the screen would slide to the side and reveal a horizontal physical qwerty keyboard
Dedicated fingerprint unlock like the Pixel 5 would be nice to see again.
I like the full screen size. Slide out keyboards are GOAT.
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But why can we not have button phones as well? I miss tactile feedback.
Thank you!
(Though, to be fair, I'm not sure how much they deserve to be thanked for undoing a change that should never have been made in the first place.)
Ehh, they were promised that full self driving was only a few years away. If that had been the case, touchscreens would be perfectly fine. But a decade of "only two more years, we swear" later, it's time for the manufacturers to get back to work on AM instead of FM.
Wouldn't it have been better for them to wait until cars were fully self-driving? I suspect they were just trend-chasing.
Who is “they”? Nobody made that bullshit promise except the Nazi in Chief.
"They" is the car manufacturers. And yes, they were promised by Apartheid Willy Wonka.
And they fell for it. Partly because this happened back in like, 2010, when tech still felt promising and fun and partly (mostly?) because they wanted to.
Touch screens still were not perfectly fine. At least not as they are implemented today. I have a medical condition that is eased by heated seats, I notice how long it take to get them on when I first sit down.
Finally saw a VW Buzz on the streets- I fell in love instantly. Not sure of the specs but I think she's mighty pretty and it makes me want to load up my band and do a cross country trip with a fun montage sequence. https://www.coachellavw.com/id-buzz/
Finally!
They decided it already couple years ago. However refresh cycles are such, that only now it starts to arrive to times where changes physically manifest. Another thing which they already said back then and kinda apologised for alas sorry, changes have to wait until next refresh or next generation of the vehicle depending on timing.
Like I guess this is official official now, but design team lead or someone like that said ages ago they would be going back to more physical buttons.
Hyundai and now VW? Who's next?
Most of them, probably. It's a new requirement in EU to get 5/5 stars safety rating.
That's also why it's specifically 5 features - that's the bare minimum.
[email protected] brace for the flood!
Good. My air con controls are actual buttons and I can use them without looking at them. But literally everything else in the car is controlled by a touch screen that you have to look at to see what you’re doing.
Does this mean VW's won't 15" touchscreen monitors plastered to the dashboard anymore? Or are they keeping that and just putting buttons under it?
They are probably going to do the bare minimum required by the new laws. So not even necessarily buttons under the touchscreen, the required controls are warning lights, indicators, wipers, the horn and the SOS button.
Thank the lord.
This is incredible news because that means my future GTI will have buttons.
I just hope they're smart enough not to put a 1200kg battery in it 🥹
Now that I think about it, cars could totally add a slot for SIM cards and be a phone and roaming wifi if they wanted to.
they do
Mine has an embedded one and I cannot change the provider, I am basically stuck. Luckily i can make hotspots from the phone and car can access the internet through my phone
That's Stellantis. It's the same company that's building cards that are now showing ads when the car stops at a red light.
VW is not Stellantis. VW is VW AG (often humourously called VAG).
This is VW, they aren't Stellantis, they are actually bigger than Stellantis, aren't they?
Indeed.
The VW group trades places with the Toyota group for largest in the world.
It is not only safety - stupid screen is eating the battery for no reason.
The power consumption of a tablet is next to nothing compared to the power it takes to move an EV.
Yeah.
iPad battery capacity: 25-41 Wh
EV battery capacity: 30,000 - 200,000 Wh
The screen consumes orders of magnitude less energy than what it takes to move the car. It's not even worth taking into account.
There used to be a concern of lights draining a car battery preventing it from starting the ignition, but nowadays all the lights are LED so it's many times more efficient.
About fucking time some damn sense around here.
They cant just be buttons. They have to be well thought out buttons. My old toyota had 3 big round knobs for the heater controls. Could adjust it without even looking. My new Toyota has heater control buttons but they’re tiny and arrayed in a row like a tiny piano. There is no space between each button and they all have the identical tactile feel. Have to take my eyes off the road for a few seconds just to find what I need.
Good. Now make the touchscreens in cars illegal.
Nah man. There are uses for touchscreens in cars. Just don’t put everything there, and especially don’t put anything you’d need to use while actively driving in there.
But being able to have dynamic user interfaces is very useful for plenty of non-directly-driving-related features.
Alright. Just make it illegal to operate any touchscreens while driving.
And make it the responsibility of the car manufacturers if the touchscreen is used, because they clearly induced the accident, that would quickly make them stop making touch screens be needed for things you should not look away while driving
This is going to be unpopular but I quite like the buttonless UI in my car (6 year old swasticar). I recently bought a van and it's so distracting.
Buttons are all over the place and I have two screens to monitor. Honestly, I spend more time looking at the controls in the van ghsn the car.
I'm getting rid of it soon and I'm not looking forward to that part.
Once you start remembering where the buttons are you get to the advantageous part which is using the controls without ever having to take your eyes off the road.
That's what I do 99% of the time with my car. The scroll wheels and voice commands work well.