Feddit.onlineVolkswagen reintroducing physical controls for vital functions | Autocar
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There's a catch. They aren't doing it out of their goodness, EuroNCAP, a car safety agency in Europe now requires physical buttons for all the most common car controls in order for car to even receive 5 stars in their EuroNCAP safety ratings. You can have the safest car in the world othereise, but has a big ass touch screen and no physical buttons for car stereo, AC and other common stuff and you'll only be able to get 4 stars.
Fucking finally I say.
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BlueLineBaeI bought a new car last year. When we were researching and narrowing down options, I had a column on my spreadsheet for physical buttons/nobs/etc. It's incredible how many cars now do not have physical implements for things you can easily do while watching the road. So that became a requirement. We needed a minimum amount of physical buttons/etc for vital things like lights, wiper blades, volume, and climate control. But seriously, the amount of cars that don't have those things anymore is quite astounding.
What did you end up buying?
I ended up buying the new Prius. Not perfect, but it has knobs and buttons for everything important you might immediately want to adjust while driving.
You can’t say all of that without mentioning what you actually ended up buying.
I ended up buying the new Prius. Not perfect, but it has knobs and buttons for everything important you might immediately want to adjust while driving.
I did the same thing last year when I was buying my college aged kid a car. I also eliminated any vehicle that has goofy stupid controls that caused you to look away from the screen.
I ended up with the Mitsubishi outlander sport. It's one of the best designed vehicles I have seen in the past 20 years. The ratings on it are of course horrible to say the least.
https://www.caranddriver.com/mitsubishi/outlander-sport
It's a vehicle that's comfortable to drive, easy to see out of with large windows, large mirrors, and all the good basics on the infotainment center. It has physical controls for everything else. The engine and transmission have a long warranties and no issues with reliability. It also has a very tight turning radius that makes it really easy to park and drive around downtown.
What's even better, pop the hood and give it an oil change etc. Its really easy to work on.
Do you mind sharing the spreadsheet or the datapoints you were looking at?
It wasn't too intuitive. If we looked at a car, we would specifically look for how to adjust basic things like climate, volume, etc. then based on what we found we would mark it as "yes" for has all standard knobs/buttons, "no" for does not have them which includes touch buttons or anything else not tactile, or "hybrid" meaning some standards are tactile and some are not. I would list the Prius we got as hybrid, but enough of what I needed were in button form to make me happy.
This may in part be motivated by new guidance from NCAP, which will from next year require that all new cars have physical controls to earn the highest safety ratings.
https://www.evo.co.uk/car-technology/207666/buttons-could-replace-touch-controls-in-cars-thanks-to-new-euro-ncap-tests
Whatever the motivation though, I'm glad for it. Getting rid of buttons was always a dumb idea and I'm happy to see pushback.
I guess they forgot to add air conditioning and volume to the list of vital controls...
It wasn't dumb from corporate perspective, which is why they all gobbled it up like junky hoovering on piles of white dust.
You know how expensive it is to mold unique dedicated physical buttons for every function and then wire them all over the place? Or just slap single touch display and cram all the shit into that single display. You code it once and use it on all models. Corporates were already counting the money saved there. Until it backfired because everyone hated it, reviewers criticized it and now it's finally also criticized by safety agencies.
sure, but they could have programmed a stick with haptic feedback to help navigate the screen so you can navigate radio, gps, contacts or whatever else while driving. Slower than touching or the old buttons but as safe as old buttons.
This is probably not a universal experience, but buttons are often faster. Not a car example, but my Garmin Venu watch was a touchscreen and it sucked compared to my Garmin Fenix which is 100% button controlled. I also type way faster on a tactile thumb board than an on screen keyboard.
Cars cost way too much for me to care about this excuse.
Yeah, but what about the value that saving money created for the shareholders?
Not my problem.
Not their problem
As well as the pure cost saving there was also the notion that it was a futuristic look that would sell, and so boost profits that way, too.
And probably it did sell and market well - for a while.
I feel that consumers had become too trusting of carmakers - after all, cars have been getting better and better in terms of their usability for decades, so when carmakers went touchscreen everything, the first instinct of the average consumer would be to trust it and assume it represented an improvement."They wouldn't do it if it was worse, right?"
And so people buy the fancy futuristic car with no buttons, and only after driving it for a month does it sink in how much they truly hate it, and that they got sold a lie.
So there was always going to be that one generation of touchscreen-everything, before the people who got burnt by it are now the ones thinking "I won't buy anything again that doesn't have some buttons!"
Not expensive. You don't have to "wire them all over the place", you just put them on a PCB and connect them to the nearest CAN bus, or similar.
They'd basically already be doing that for the touch screen, and may well be using similar controls under the hood, where the physical buttons send a command to the computer to do a thing, in lieu of a mechanical connection.
One more connector, one more cable in harness, more coding, more cad time, more manufacturing time and more testing.
If it comes out to 20 dollars per car and you multiply it by 50000 a year for a relatively popular model there is a nice bonus for the ceo. Oh, and the price to consumer increases at the same time.
Or you could just raise the price of the car by $20 since you've just added thousands in value?
I mean shit, let's take the seats out of the car! Bam! Just saved you billions, right? /s
More coding?! Are you serious? Over a touch screen!
Also, extremely easy to test.
Without actually knowing how much constructing the physical buttons cost, I would guess that the real savings are in process optimization - if all you have for the interface is a screen, then you don't need to have the interface design done before constructing the car - you can parallelize these tasks.
Insufficient as far as justifications go, but understandably lucrative.
You can even have that single display collect so much car user data and sell that too
Physical controls don't change this.
Hyundai (motor group) and some time later VW group announced that they are bringing physical buttons back.
March of 2023
https://www.thedrive.com/news/hyundai-promises-to-keep-buttons-in-cars-because-touchscreen-controls-are-dangerous
December of 2023
https://insideevs.com/news/701296/vw-physical-controls-to-return/
Fair :)
That's very positive.
Now, take out the bullshit that's tracking you and sending the information back to them to sell, and we'll be doing something great
Not sure how they were able to remove so many buttons in the first place and not be marked down on safety. Suddenly trying to find a demister on a touchscreen menu while in motion was never a great idea. Surprisingly, Volvo off all companies have been one of the worst for this. That's why I like Dacias, little tech = little to go wrong.
I mean it was a great idea of you wanted to reduce costs while also increasing the price of the vehicle.
And it looks nice.
And Volvo went from this:
To this:
Which is quite the change...
OTOH now we will get to enjoy dashcam videos of car rollovers where the driver is like, Where's that playlist... OH GOD OH SHIT !!!
Not out of the goodness of their own hearts mind. It's probably more because Euro NCAP are going to be deducting score for not having physical essentials in 2026.
Nah, this „news“ is from early to mid last year. Their designers simply took notes and realized touch screens suck for a vehicle.
And I doubt they're much more expensive.
That’s why I love brands like Hyundai. Never got rid of the knobs.
Honda as well.
Subaru went all in on the touch screen and it suuuuucked.
My uncle's outback looks like a video slot machine, and everything had to be done through the touchscreen. But to add insult to injury, the Subaru touchscreens are super slow and unresponsive, so they feel like they aren't working.
Yup, that was my experience with the in laws Ascent.
Yep. And mazda has physical climate button/knobs, with a physical dial to control the infotainment (it's pretty convenient, if a bit of an older design on most of their vehicles).
I consider it space-age. I haven't driven a non-Mazda that seemed as well thought out and functional. I wish I could rip one out and put it on my non-Mazda car. I breath a sigh of relief that my partner didn't buy the Honda with a long finicky touchstrip to control the volume instead of a knob.
Which Honda had the touchstrip instead of a knob?
I don't doubt one might exist, just haven't run into one yet.
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Its been a few years, but I think it was a Honda Fit.
Same as BMW iDrive. I'm sure some are touch screen, but you don't have to use it.
Mazda is a physical dial by default, but if you want to you can go into the settings and enable the touch screen. Best of both worlds.
Thats the reason they dont have me roped into payments right now
I got in right before Subaru went that way and ended up with the best of both worlds: a touchscreen for CarPlay and knobs for...everything else. I still have knobs for the radio if need be.
Plus it's a six speed manual (Crosstrek).
I get a flyer from the dealership every other week asking if I want to "upgrade." Sorry, fellas, nothing you have is an upgrade to me. You can't get a manual gearbox here any more.
Huh, let's see why
Ew.
It's frustrating because "the consumer" doesn't want manuals, yet car makers add all these things that keep people from paying attention to the road making it - in my opinion - too easy to get distracted. I like that I can't hold my phone in my hand and drive because I need to shift.
Last summer I was in Ireland, and I was peeking in a few cars on parked on the side of the road just out of curiosity. Almost every one was a manual, it seemed like. It's not that we COULDN'T have fun, manual cars here. But Americans are lazy.
I have a Hyundai ioniq 5 and it definitely has touch buttons for some of the things, like climate control.
Same on my OG ioniq
We got the new Kona and besides the touchscreen we have all the buttons.
I have now a tucson and I can tell you with all the stupid an superfluous buttons everywhere that I need te press each time I start the car it is definitely not adding tot the security on the road.
So, you’re saying that a touchscreen where you have actively look at because you don’t have any haptic feedback is saver on the roads?
I can give many examples about the stupidity of physical buttons in the Hyundai but limit myself to one example the ‘auto hold’ button… each time when I start the car I need to press it because a toggle on the display ‘default on/off’ doesn’t give me the haptic feedback. That I almost hit someone because the car starts to ‘crawl’ at high speed is of less importance. This is just one of the 70+ buttons in a Hyundai Tucson. Because there are so many I need to take my eyes off the road to verify that I press the correct one.
Hm, never had that problem with the Kona. When I start the car it’s automatically active until I hit the gas pedal and in any other case, recuperation is your friend. Recuperation to max and you don’t even have to break anymore.
Never had the problem in a Tesla as well. Once when I first used it I did the settings and all the years after it behaved the way I set it up. Not one physical buttons needed. I guess for some people the number of buttons in a car gives the a feel of importance. 🤷🏼
If you can achieve the same thing with one single tap instead of going through what the OP has to, then yes.
And depending on how many buttons there are, chances are you have to look at the buttons too.
Many buttons just perform a toggle function that could easily be solved with a setting on the screen. Removes a lot of clutter and distraction. Less buttons leave more room for buttons that might be useful to have as a physical button.
Are you guys playing the pain while driving? The only but I actually used is the hazard light button. The rest are all around the steering wheel.
There you go, you admit that apart from the hazard light button the rest is unnecessary
Nah, heating, air conditioning, seat venting. I use all of that. But most of the time not. It I like having buttons. I mean, it’s easier if I have to switch menus all the time. You and me both know that touchscreen only is stupid. It sounds nice on paper but then you need to turn on your windshield wipers and chaos unfolds. You love Tesler and that’s okay but boy… why the fuck are we arguing about this. It’s not like we gonna change each other’s opinions and buying a new car. You like touchscreens and I like buttons. Let’s agree on that.
Now get rid of the touch screen entirely. Mark my words, the first electric car unveiled as a totally analog experience will be incredibly popular.
Thank you!
I don't care what the reasoning is behind the decision (customer feedback vs. changes to safety ratings), I'm just glad it's happening and I hope all manufacturers follow suit.
This has been my gripe with new cars ever since I found myself needing one in 2022. Everything I looked at had a huge infotainment system front-ending climate and cabin controls. Want to turn your steering wheel heat off mid drive? Ha! Tap this specific spot on this screen 3 times and hope the car doesn't bounce while you're doing so or you'll accidentally turn something else on. Want to use voice controls? Joke's on you, they only work 50% of the time.
God forbid something happens to the control board (which costs thousands of dollars to replace if you're outside warranty), because then you're completely hosed.
You know what always worked without fail? The buttons in my 2005 Corolla.
Even without the new EU regulations on this, I bet VW was already planning on doing this. The widespread backlash to the non-illuminated capacitive touch controls on the newest Golf GTIs/Rs was significant. I wouldn't have bought one of those, and a Golf R is basically my dream car.
I've been passing on a Golf R for the past 3 years for this exact reason.
I dunno. Cadillac has been doing this for decades and show no sign of stopping. I had them in my Chevy Volt and they were infuriating.
would be nice seeing them doing it instead of talking about it
I mean, that's step 1? It's not like they can do an instantaneous cutover, they'll need to figure out what's vital enough to deserve buttons, come up with a design/layout for that, find a supplier for them, get them in, start assembling the cars with them... Honestly they've probably already done a lot of that behind the scenes already before saying anything publicly. Point is, it's not like there's a button in the factory to start making cars with buttons instead.
I swear I‘ve read this headline like 4 times in the last month in this very community.
It's been a long time since I looked but I hope most cars still have physical buttons/controls for all important functions! Besides being easier and faster to use, without them if a touchscreen malfunctions (hardware or software) everything is gone and you wouldn't be able to drive the car. Then there's the tracking and spying, and sometimes bugs and UI changes after updates--and now ads!?# Cars are becoming as enshittified like everything else now.
Are we gonna have to physically roll down our windows again?
My car armrest has physical buttons (edit: I guess you'd call them "rocker switches") that I can push forward or backward to raise/lower the windows. It would be absolutely ridiculous to make me navigate a menu on a touchscreen to do that--please tell me newer cars aren't doing that?
Thank you! Now bring back physical keys too!
The very definition of the solution looking for a problem that one.
Oh look I don't have to put the keys in the ignition that saved me a whole tenth of a second. Of course now it's possible to lose my keys in my own car.
I literally did not buy/straightout refused to buy new Golf because of this crap. It does not get simpler than that: other producer got my money, VW group did not. Period.
Volkswagen should be forbidden to produce anything. There were even touch-SLIDE commands on the steering wheel. God only knows how many lives were lost in accidents, because someone ''touched'' something and switched something off or on. Horrible.
Aw, just when they were about to get rid of the steering wheel, shame.
hoping the whole industry follows after, please subaru go back to the climate control buttons
revolutionary
Unbelievable levels of ingenuity.
Good
Learning from Scout, which is also under the VW umbrella:
Hopefully they can hit some middleground so we don't end up back in the crazy button-hell that cars used to be. Having a billion buttons is equally as bad as having none.
Btw, is that a tablet dock i see?
The thing in the middle under the display? I'd assume its a scrolling wheel, kinda like on your mouse but very wide
Nah, it was somewhat of a joke about the built-in but locked away infotainment systems.
ahh well, guess that is my [email protected] moment of the day
Too bad, i liked the way it was going… in my experience 80% of the buttons are unnecessary, provided of course that the automation is well thought out .
That 20% though....you want that to be physical.